🕊️ Sundays with Cain – Episode 17 - A ROLL & RUMBLE Fight Co. Exclusive

Time's slipping through my hand. As I scribble the notes from yet another amazing interview with our storyteller, "the big guy". This is a big week for Cain. On Saturday, he will be baptized in the name of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. That has many people here wanting to be involved or witness. Cain has invited me, and I will be there to celebrate this act of faith and devotion. Now, if you think it is because Cain has found God in prison, you would be wrong. That is not the case. Cain has always known God. He was baptized as a newborn in the Catholic church his mother attended. He has felt God's presence in plant medicine. His decision is based on a fundamental idea that he lives by. We have spoken of it before. The pathless path. There lies an understanding between Cain and his higher power (AKA God); Cain's path has already been chosen. His job now is not to resist it. When someone asked Cain, "Do you want to be baptized?” Cain's view is that he is being guided on this journey from above already. Saying 'yes' is the only answer. Through this belief, he is attending and being baptized in the Apostolic Church on Saturday. He goes on Sunday mornings to the Church of the Latter Day Saints (Mormon) with Gordo (my cellmate). He will do a drum circle and a sweat lodge with the native brothers later in the week. This takes nothing away from his experience of the Baptism. In fact, in his mind, it only increases his understanding of faith. I saw him in the day room with a hermetic book. He called me over and had me read a page. It spoke of how you can reach a greater understanding of your faith. By not allowing the dogma of religion to hold you captive and restrict your growth. Seek multiple teachings from many religious schools, and you will see they all serve the same God. Find God in yourself, through the truth in each religious principle you are shown, which brings you closer to your true self. With that, we sat down for our chat.

So you're going to be baptized on Saturday. Is this the first time? "No, I was baptized as a child in our church. My mom was Catholic, and that is how they do it". Do you know which church it was? "I don't. I think we lived in Eloy". What does being baptized mean to you? "I've been reborn. My spirit has been reborn. So now I am doing a water rebirth. It is, this is, new life, my new life. I'm consciously walking the path more so than before". 

We spoke about your brother last week and chose to leave parts of the story unwritten. Does your rebirth trace back to the hospital room and the death of your brother? "That was the catalyst. Ya, I started my new journey then. Before, I lived through the ego. It was always me, me, me. When I had taken plant medicine for the first time, I had a spiritual awakening and rebirth. That was in 2019. We had spoken of that before. So your brother was the spark? " Yes, we went out in the woods. Family and friends. We did ayahuasca, and I began my healing journey ". Cain was very keen not to tell me who these family or friends were. I asked and received only big smiles and head shakes. He did tell me a little about that night, but we agreed to leave it out for now. When is your first memory of feeling the presence of God or His Spirit? Cain paused for a long time and was deep in thought before he spoke,”I was four or five. It was my first memory of visiting the ocean. The vastness of it and the power of it connected me to something I can only describe as God".

How has your time here changed you? "It is working with people who are so hurt or damaged. People are hurting outside of prison, too; it's just so concentrated in here. This time has made me more aware of the damage life causes people. I get to interact with that pain inside here more. The breathing class has been so helpful. Before, I used to do it, but in very small groups and not often. I could use plant medicine to get healing, so I did that more often. Here, in prison, we all have time and breathing class is a good way to spend it. I have learned the power it gives people just beginning their journey. I am learning how to present the first step in that process for people who desire to learn. How to guide someone to heal from within. Not having to go to an outside source. Learning and teaching the power to heal has been there all along. It's in every one of us right now. This lesson is in the Bible, and any other religion seeks to know thyself. I am giving people the knowledge that's already in them. Now they can take back their power". That's so true. I am learning how to be kinder to myself. I also feel like the breathing class has allowed me the space to start a journey. It is a launching point for inward travel. Sometimes we lie there from start to finish, for an hour or more. I can only speak for myself, but I can slow down in that time and explore. Explore my mind, my heart, my loves, and losses. Then, when the hour is over, I have found something. I can't put my finger on exactly what that thing is, but I know it is inside of me. And that is why I keep coming back. I want to find that thing inside of me, if I can just slow down enough to see it. What has telling the story of your life brought you internally? "It gives me tremendous gratitude. It was all orchestrated. My story has been designed perfectly just for me, to know and learn my true self better. Whatever role I play, I just have endless gratitude that I was able to live this life". 

Has sharing your story sparked an interest in learning more about the story of those you love? "I wish someone could have been able to write my mom's story down," I asked you earlier this week, Who would you want to talk about this week. You told me about your aunt Katharine. Is that your mom's sister? " Ya, we call her Nina Katie". I bet she holds a lot of your mom's stories inside of herself. "What has your Nina Katie meant to you? " I always saw a very strong woman. She is strong spiritually, emotionally, and physically. I know men out there she could whoop in a fight". When was the last time you saw her? "I haven't seen her since like 2020 or 2021. She lives in Eloy, about three hours outside of Yuma". What memories do you have of her when you were younger? " She owned a bar in Eloy called 'La Copa'. My sister, brother, cousins, and I would go there and turn on the disco ball. Then we would run around on the dance floor. She would serve us Shirley Temples. I remember her being so patient and kind. I always felt at home with her and my Nino Herbert". How many cousins of yours are her kids? "Three, Beto, Tila, and Steve. Beto is a couple years older than Adela (Cain's sister), Tila is Adela's age, and Steve is three or four years younger than me". So your mom and Katie took turns being pregnant. I'm sure she has lots of stories of your mom, you have never heard. What about your cousins, were you guys close? "Beto was a state heavyweight champion in wrestling and went on to play football at Jr. college. He and my brother were close and would go out together a lot". Do you think Beto is why your brother got into wrestling? " Ya, probably. I remember Beto slamming me around play-fighting. He was one of the strongest, most powerful people I'd ever known. They began training me how to wrestle by play-fighting". What about Tila? "She was the brains of the family. She and Adela are the same age, so they were close. Then there is Steve, he also wrestled in high school, but I was already off to college". Sounds like your Nina Katie saw a lot of you. How many aunts and uncles do you have on your mom's side? "Five, Katie is the youngest. Then my Theo Fernie who lives in Salinas, my Thea Susan is in Fresno, Theo Vijen (who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger) lives in Eloy, and the oldest is Theo Raymond who is in Fresno as well". So your Grandparents were farm workers, right? " Yes, Adela Reyes and Eduvijes Ramirez (the gun smuggler from a previous episode) he was in a group of Mexican's that fought the Pachucos back in the day. My grandma would tell us stories of him. He had a lot of hate in him. He was originally from Ibiza, Spain. The family had land grants in Mexico from the King of Spain that his uncle took from him, his inheritance". And Adela? "She is Yaqui, the native people of the Sonoran Desert. There is a town in Arizona called Guadalupe. The Yaqui never signed a peace treaty with the USA and have retained their own land. It's not a reservation, it's different. Her dad, my great-grandfather, was a Texas Ranger. He fought Mexico against the genocide of the Yaqui people by the Mexicans". So your warrior blood runs deep. If they are anything like you, I'm sure they made a difference. 

Let's shift topics. I want to play a little game. I'm going to say a name, and you tell me the first thing that pops into your mind. "OK," Dave Camarillo, "Gamer, Gorilla Jiu-Jitsu, Fellow Fighter, Black Belt Judo and Jiu-Jitsu combined them, close with John Fitch, great coach," Brandon Phillips. "Roommate for two years in college. Good friend. We became friends in art class in high school. When he went to Mesa Junior College in Tempe, I would go visit. He was like, "Man, let's get a place, my dad will co-sign". So we did. Then we got kicked out for a party he threw while I was at a match. We moved 45 minutes off campus. So I started hanging out at Bryan's to be close to campus, and we became best friends. Bryan Stith. "Saint, in the flesh. A dude that you will only meet once in a lifetime. There when you need him, he never lets you down. You'll let yourself down before he will. (I ask Cain to tell me a story involving Stith. Cain starts laughing. We are in Ohio, doing duels. A couple of guys missed weight. We lost a bunch of matches. It's mid-season and we're grinding it out. We walk into our hotel after our shit duel. There is a plate of hot, fresh, chocolate chip cookies on the counter. Everyone is grabbing some cookies and starts eating. Guys who didn't make weight. Ortiz loses his shit and starts yelling so hard his face is out of shape. Bryan is late walking in. He is the last one and missed everything. He has his headphones on and is listening to music. He walked over to the counter and grabbed a cookie on his way by the coach. He lifts the cookie up and shows it to Tom as he walks by and nods his head, and starts eating the cookie. It was one of the funniest things ever. Everyone lost it laughing". That is a good story. We will do some more of these every week. 

Let's go to where we left off last week. You win your fight with Silva and now have a rematch set with JDS. You do the trip to promote in Mexico. Is that market exploding now that you are the pride of Mexico? "It is". Anything different? "No, it's business as usual. I'm just focused on doing what I have to do and getting back to the gym". OK, let's go to the gym then. Is the rift between management better now that you won? "It's not gone, but it's not what I'm focused on. Javier is my guy. I listen to him and we get to work". You and Javier watch a tape of JDS. Which of his fights are you watching? " We watched Mir (Frank) and the Big Country (Roy Nelson) fight. We knew I had to go forward with pressure. With JDS, we knew I needed to throw hard punches to open up the takedown. I started training in chain wrestling. Punches to wrestling. Wrestling to punches. Punches to wrestling. Wrestle to punches". Who are you sparring and wrestling with? "DC, Todd Duffy came in from Florida. He had trained with JDS before, Mike Kyle. I go a round with a different guy for 5 rounds. Working the chain". What's the mood in the gym with all the other guys?" There is excitement. They all feel that they have their guy. The one who should have beaten JDS the first time. You were in such good shape at this time. Maybe the best shape of your life. How do you train for your world-class cardio? "This is where Bob Cook was good. He would push me on the Air Dyne (one of those bikes with a fan in the front wheel) three days a week. It was thirty minutes.  One minute on the bike at max effort. Hop off and hit the bag one minute at max tempo. Hop back on the bike, one minute pushing all out. Hop back off, hit mitts one minute full force. Back on, off, on for 30 minutes. Bob pushed me hard on those workouts. Then three days a week I'm with Javier, punches to wrestling, wrestling to punches". How long ahead of the fight do you start this routine? "Ten or twelve weeks.” What are you telling yourself to prepare mentally? "I knew the pace of the fight I was going to bring. I knew I was NOT going to finish him. Everything that was going to happen was how I planned. In my head, I'm saying, five rounds. I want to make a statement. This guy who took what's mine is going to take all of my darkness. My rage. There is punishment in me, and I'm directing it towards JDS. When I thought of the coming war. This was the energy and thoughts that I had”.

Is camp any different from the others? "Javier's original coach came in and worked with me. He was living in Hawaii and had moved back to the States. His name was Walter “Pops” Calvalho; everybody just called him “Pops”. He's like eighty years old. I remember he used to throw his voice. (Cain is laughing so hard a tear comes to his eye). He would mess with people and throw his voice across the gym. People would look over there, and nobody would be there. So I messed with him once. The cell reception was really bad in the gym. So I told Pops he had to stand up on a chair, get higher to pick up a signal.

He climbed up on a chair and was trying to stand and reach as high as he could go. Meanwhile, everyone started laughing and yelling for him to get down. I mean, he's eighty-something. It was great".

So they brought in the man who taught Javier to teach you. Out of retirement, no less. That's a great story. Let's go to the match. It's December 29th, 2012. The MGM Grand in Las Vegas, UFC 155, are you feeling nervous, or are you locked in? "I would stay at the Four Seasons in Vegas. Michelle would always leave me alone on the day of the fight. I remember sitting in the room and thinking to myself, 'Would it be easier if I just left town and didn't go through with all this?'. I knew how much of myself I was going to give in just a few hours. The buildup from the first fight to now is intense. I just stay in the room and prepare myself mentally". Is your mom and dad there for this fight?" When I lost the first fight, my dad told me his stomach was all messed up when I got knocked out. He didn't want me fighting anymore. He never watched another one of my fights again. My mom didn't go to them anymore either, but I think she still watched".

Let's go to the fight. Bert Watson comes and gets you with "It's time, Baby, we're Rolling!!!! You walk out to " Los Mandados " and Javier is repeating in your ear, "punches to wrestling, wrestling to punches". When Herb Dean starts the fight, what do you remember? " I remember the first take-down was all messed up, and we rolled out of it right away. There are no dead movements, and I push the pace. I know how to move forward. So when I went for a take down and his leg isn't there, I sit down on an overhand right and catch his chin. I felt it connect. He's popping right back up. That doesn't happen. He doesn't have an off switch". Do you remember anything your corner tells you in between rounds? "No, just keep doing what you're doing". Round two is more of the same. You take him down right away and start pushing the pace again. Joe Rogan is calling the fight a mauling in the second. Do you feel satisfied with how it’s going or think about pacing yourself at all?" There is no pacing anything. It's all out. I know how dangerous he is. If I take my foot off the gas even a little, he will beat me". The second round is over, and JDS could hardly make it back to his corner. How do you feel? "I don't remember what the corner said, but when the 3rd round started, I felt like I was going to faint. I told myself, it's ok, if I faint, I faint. Just keep pushing the pace". In the third round, you take him down right away again. " Ya, but he's holding the fence and it's a lot harder than it should be". Ok, well, Junior looks like he is swimming in deep water. "He's on autopilot. The vessel is moving, but he's not driving it. His subconscious is just surviving, and he is operating on instinct". His instincts catch you with an uppercut at the end of the third. What does that do? " It keeps me honest to keep working. I know it's not over, and he can still win this”.

Round four is the first time you have gone to this point in a match. How do you feel? "I feel good. I've trained for this. It's exactly what I knew it would be. I'm meant to do this, this way. All those years wrestling in overtime matches have prepared me". Once again, the round starts with a single leg take down. He gets right back up. You look fresh, and Junior's eyes are swollen, and his lip is all busted up. How much do you pay attention to things like that? "I notice them, but it means nothing. I'm gassed by now, too, and still trying to push. There is no stopping; I'm not going to finish him. This is me unleashing all my darkness. But he's going to be dangerous till the last bell". So the fourth round is over. What's Javier say before the championship round? "Javier would say, I need you to take it now. Then ask me, what are you going to do? I didn't want to talk, but I would say, I'm going to take it". So the last round is the only time he was able to defend the take down. (Cain jumps in) "He was grabbing the cage the whole night. Herb could have done a better job of watching that". OK, but it doesn't matter that you dominated the whole night, and by the last bell, Junior has a hematoma on the side of his head that looks bad. The fight is over, and it goes to the judges. Everyone knew you had won in such a dominant performance. What are the emotions when Dana puts the belt back on you? "When I beat Brock, I felt like dreams do come true. This was more like it. Happening exactly like I thought it would happen. I already knew this was what I was capable of. Now I was able to show it to everyone that supported me or doubted me". Were there a lot of doubters? " There was, JDS had been destroying any and everyone. I remember before the fight. The owner of the WEC (before it was absorbed by the UFC) told me he didn't think I could win". When you look back at this point in your life, what do you want to hold onto? "That, without Junior being the warrior he is, it's not possible. He brought the best out of me. It was all that I wanted it to be and more. I know Junior doesn't remember that night. He has given interviews where he is just unable to recall anything. Later that night, we celebrated at a club. My tongue was cut to shit, my face is swollen, and my back is hurting really badly. So I know Junior must have felt like shit. This was the fight that started a sharp pain in my leg from my spine". I'm sure both of you guys should have gone to the hospital. What I do know is that the fight really reinforced your reputation as an all-around badass warrior with tremendous heart. Your fan base just exploded after this fight!

I got one more question. This is the fan question. It's from all of your lifelong fans around the world. Cain, would you ever consider fighting again? If for just one night, who would it be? "Where I am in the moment, I don't see fighting as an option anymore. I wanted to perform at the highest level of my physical form. I'm not that anymore. Having said that, I could never say never. It doesn't do anything for me anymore like it used to. My interests have changed. The only person that I really could see myself fighting would be Brock. Because of our history, the interest of those who would like to see such a thing, and he would be the one who would have to be interested". With that, we have made one more giant step. Traveling the road through the big guy's life. Thank you for reading to this point. I hope it's everything for you that it is for me.

Thanks for checking in. See you next week on “Sundays with Cain”!